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SURT8000 problem: schematics ?

Discussion in Smart-UPS & Symmetra LX / RM started by Francesco , 10/7/2017 10:22 AM
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  • fdeppieri
    New Member New Member
    Francesco 10/7/2017 10:22 AM

    Hi all,

    My SURT8000 UPS did smoke and now it does not works. It reports "Internal fault".

    I'm electronic engineer and I start to investigate the issue. I discovered one of the IGBT IC1408 has broken and I replaced it.

    But still it does not works. I investigated more and I found the diode IC1407 seems to be in shortcut. I replaced it but, again, I does not work yet.

    The issue seems to be in the stage that generate the -400V, while the +400V works fine.

    At this point I'm asking if anybody knows where some detailed schematics could be available.



  • liamg
    =S= Representative
    Liam 10/10/2017 4:57 PM (in response to Francesco)

    Hi Francesco - Unfortunately these units are not considered to be field serviceable and we do not release Schematics for them.



  • fdeppieri
    New Member New Member
    Francesco 10/11/2017 8:48 AM (in response to Liam)

    Hi Liam,

    I'd like to find a way to get my expenses UPS working again.

    I contacted the service support. They told me that because the warrant expired (just one year before) the only option I have is to buy another one. It is clear it can not be accetable! and let me say this is a very, very bad "support" from APC.

    This is the reason I tried to solve the issue directly but most of the basic informations of the device are missing.

    I wrote in this forum asking some sort of minimal support...

    Do you think there are some other manual or info could be useful (now my "bible" is the "Service Manual" that is very poor for several items).

    Thanks a lot


  • Terry_Kennedy
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Terry 10/13/2017 4:55 AM (in response to Francesco)

    [Just another user here, I don't speak for APC or anyone else.]

    Unfortunately, APC probably has no obligation to you once the warranty has expired. I am in the US; I'm told that some European countries have more stringent consumer protection laws than we do here in the US.

    APC sometimes offers two programs - Charge-UPS which supplies a new battery and a 1-year warranty extension, and Trade-UPS which provides a credit on a new UPS (although you may do better purchasing a discounted unit from an authorized reseller than paying APC list price minus the credit). These programs seem to come and go, depending on the UPS model and the market involved.

    APC probably has a number of reasons for not providing information. Among the ones I can think of:

    1) Providing schematics would place them at a competitive disadvantage, as other manufacturers would be able to study them. Some older schematics were "leaked" and you may find copies in odd corners of the Internet. You can also also find some information by searching for "APC UPS repair", normally posted by other end users who have figured things out on their own. Of course, you need to evaluate whether the information seems trustworthy and whether you have the skills and tools to implement it properly.

    2) There are dangerous high voltages inside these units. From what you described, your unit should be capable of producing 800V. Further, the battery bus voltage has been increasing in new designs, so even a properly-functioning unit can be lethal if someone goes poking around inside.

    3) APC makes rolling design changes without updating the model number. Just because a board came from one UPS with the same model number as yours, it may not work at all, or may work improperly, in your UPS. Older units were calibrated after assembly by tweaking the values of hardware components. Newer units have that data in calibration memory. Assembling a unit from collections of parts will probably result in an out-of-spec unit, even if it works. You will often see cryptic notes written in marker on the insides of units, usually on the heat sinks, which provide information to APC about the particular make-up and calibration of that unit.

    4) APC has (had?) at least one authorized repair facility, and providing information to other people to let them repair units may not be permitted under the agreement with their authorized repair facility. It would be nice if APC had facilities in each country they operate in, but I only know of one that was in the US many years ago.

    5) To some extent, "you get what you pay for" - higher-end units like the Symmetra RM have individually-replaceable components so you don't have to junk the whole UPS if something fails. They also seem to be designed to a higher standard than the consumer units. I am not a fan of the "junk the whole battery module" philosophy enforced by newer units - the "smart" battery module has an EEPROM that records the fact that the batteries in it went bad, and you can't just replace the batteries - you need to junk the whole module. Apparently enough people agree with me that APC still sells brand new Symmetra RM (original 6K units) - I just got one in here with a 2017 date on the serial number. Matrix units are also pretty robust and somewhat modular - I have some of those that have been running for 20 years - I just checked and one was built 12/11/97.

    If none of that makes you feel any better, you can always "vote with your wallet" and purchase a replacement UPS made by some other company. I'd have a hard time coming up with any other brand that I thought was substantially better than APC, at least in the lower-end Smart-UPS area.

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