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UTS6H Panel with attached Back-UPS Pro 1500/BR24BPG External Battery Pack and standby eu3000is Generator | Universal Transfer Switch

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UTS6H Panel with attached Back-UPS Pro 1500/BR24BPG External Battery Pack and standby eu3000is Generator

Discussion in Universal Transfer Switch started by Robert , 8/21/2014 5:59 PM
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UTS6H Panel with attached Back-UPS Pro 1500/BR24BPG External Battery Pack and standby eu3000is Generator

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  • rwmann

    About a year ago, I had installed and I setup a UTS6H Panel with attached Back-UPS Pro 1500/BR24BPG External Battery Pack (on Circuit 1 as indicated in the setup guide) and had installed a hard-wired external inlet for a standby eu3000is Generator.

    I consistently have "six green" on the UTS panel and the UPS and eternal battery self-test fine.

    That said, I have noticed that during brief (sub-second) power outages, the "uninterruptible" circuits designed to be powered by the Back-UPS Pro 1500 drop, and are powered by local Smart-UPS units in the remote office.

    In a recent test, I removed power from UTS6H circuits 5 and 6, and the UTS panel went dark. The Back-UPS 1500 with external battery pack did not kick in to power the panel or any of the "uninterruptible" circuits.

    What am I doing wrong here?  I am expecting the "uninterruptible" designated circuits and the UTS6H to be powered through a power event transient (and based on load and capacity, for up to 20 minutes, long enough to drag out and start up the eu3000is) by the Back-UPS 1500 and BR24BPG, and that doesn't appear to be happening.

    Thanks.

  • Techsplosion

    Which circuits to you have set as "uninterruptible", and what load is on those circuits? Also, do you have these circuits setup as "Delayable"? Delayable circuits will use ALM (adaptive load management) which is a type of load shedding, shutting down less important circuits to save runtime for the important ones. With that being said, if you're not using ALM it would be best to go into System Setup and turn load shedding off. Something else to check in the System Setup menu is "Backup2 Source type", and make sure it's set to "UPS".

    It's also possible that the total load across the uninterupptible circuits exceeds the total capacity of the UPS, which would force the UTS to bypass the UPS. You can set the logic in the UTS for the size of the UPS in the System Setup menu. The user manual also explains what each particular setting in the System Setup menu means - you can find it here: http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=uts10bi&tab=documentation (the section you need starts on page 7)

    To answer your other question, the UTS6H is actually a 240v device. It needs 240v across circuits 5 and 6 (supplied from either utility or a generator) in order to keep itself on, which is why the entire unit shut down when power was removed from them. Since the BackUPS is a 120v UPS, it can't keep the UTS powered on by itself.

  • rwmann

    With respect, per the manual, the UTS6H is a "120V only" device. It senses different 120V phases on circuits 5 and 6 to detect mains power failure.  It cannot handle 240V and thus the 120V Back-UPS 1500 and eu300is are appropriate for the intended purpose.

    One area that does create some confusion is in the designation of Setup Option 2 backup sources and the distinction between "UNINTERRUPTIBLE" and "UPS":

    "Setup Option 2-Source

    The factory default setting for the backup power source is GEN (generator). Use the down/up arrow keys to establish the

    backup power source for a selected circuit.

    GEN-backup power source will be a connected generator.

    UNINTERRUPTIBLE-there is continuous backup power supplied by a UPS. Utility power flows into the UPS and from

    the UPS to the connected load. This provides power and protection for the load during any utility power fluctuation.

    NONE-there will be no backup power source available.

    EITHER-backup power source will be either a connected generator or a UPS.

    UPS-backup power source will be a connected UPS.

    Note: Backup power source availability varies for some circuits.

    The UPS and EITHER backup power source options are not available for:

    • circuit1 on all units

    • the designated 240 V circuits on the UTS6BI or the UTS10BI"

  • Techsplosion

    True, the UTS6H only has dedicated 120v output circuits (unlike the UTS10BI for example, that uses circuits 9 and 10 to form a dedicated 240v circuit). However, the UTS6H does need two opposite phases of 120v (measuring 240v total) across 5 and 6 to function. Page 10 of the installation manual explains: UTS6/UTS6H - Utilizing all of the UTS circuits is not necessary.However, Circuits 5 and 6 must be connected to the building circuit panel and must receive power for the UTS to function. Circuits 5 and 6 must be connected to circuits that are in opposite phases so that 240 Vac is present across the circuits 5 and 6.


    The setup section you were referring to is a little confusing. If the circuit is set to "uninterruptible", then whatever load is on that circuit will actually be powered normally by the UPS. So the normal state of operation will have the circuit(s) being protected by the UPS, just like they were plugged into the back of the UPS itself. Selecting "UPS" as a backup source would mean those circuits are powered only by the UPS during an outage, not by the connected generator.



  • rwmann

    And the issue is that on circuits set to "uninterruptible", I am not seeing the UPS power those when line power fails, despite those circuit loads being less than half the UPS continuous 875W capacity.

  • rwmann

    "UTS6H is actually a 240v device. It needs 240v across circuits 5 and 6 (supplied from either utility or a generator) in order to keep itself on, which is why the entire unit shut down when power was removed from them. Since the BackUPS is a 120v UPS, it can't keep the UTS powered on by itself."

    If this were true, then the APC UTS6H and APC Back-UPS and single-phase 120V Honda generators (such as eu3000is) that are specified for use are incompatible by design.

  • wayne_i

    My first thought was that your "remote" UPS was not accepting the "quality" of the modified sine wave from the Back-UPS Pro 1500, and switching over to battery, which may still be a sensitivity problem... On further thought, if the UTS is going dark when you disable utility input power on circuits 5 and 6, it sounds like the Back-UPS Pro 1500 is NOT actually powering the UTS.

    Have you confirmed that the "Utility" AND "UPS" LEDs are illuminated when the UTS is operating on utility power? If not, then the UPS is not recognized by the UTS as providing power. If the UPS LED IS illuminated when utility power is good, does the Back-UPS Pro 1500 shutdown when you kill circuits 5 and 6? If the Back-UPS Pro 1500 is shutting down then it sounds like an overload situation. Remember the UPS will be powering ALL circuits set to "Uninterruptible" on the UTS.

    By the way, a transfer switch that can only operate with good utility power wouldn't be a very useful transfer switch!

  • rwmann

    "Have you confirmed that the "Utility" AND "UPS" LEDs are illuminated when the UTS is operating on utility power?"

    Yes, both green

    "If the UPS LED IS illuminated when utility power is good, does the Back-UPS Pro 1500 shutdown when you kill circuits 5 and 6?"

    No, the Back-UPS Pro 1500 and accessory battery pack do not shut down.

    "By the way, a transfer switch that can only operate with good utility power wouldn't be a very useful transfer switch!"

    No kidding!  Which is why I'm trying to sort this out before it's needed in anger.

  • wayne_i

    So, thinking out loud:

    My understanding (and limited experience) is:

    1) If ANY "Source" LED on the UTS is illuminated then the UTS *should* be operational.

    2) If the "UPS" Source LED on the UTS is illuminated then the UTS and any circuit set to "Uninterruptible" should be TOTALLY unaffected (no switch-over delay) by the loss or absence of either utility or generator power since the UPS is / was powering these circuits already. Similarly, the UPS and UTS should NOT go into overload under this condition UNLESS there are other circuits set to "UPS".

    3) If the UTS detects an overload on the circuits set to Uninterruptible or UPS (as determined by the "UPS Power Rating" setting) it should shutdown the loads BUT it should continue to display it's status (stay operational / "lit-up"?) and NOT cause the UPS to go into overload.

    4) With utility power on, if you turn the UPS off, the circuits set to "Uninterruptible" and the "UPS" Source LED *should* "go dark". (I don't know if the UTS will drop the circuits set to Uninterruptible back to utility power with / without delay under this condition?)

    ANYONE, please correct me if I am wrong in any of the above "understandings"!

    As a diagnostic I would suggest either setting ALL outputs to something OTHER than Uninterruptible or UPS, or actually unplugging those connected loads, and seeing if the UTS stays operational with ONLY the UPS providing power to ONLY the UTS (turn off utility power to circuits 5 and 6 or maybe all UTS utility input power?). If this fails I think it would strongly suggest a fault in the UTS.

    I hope this is helpful...

  • rwmann

    Both UTILITY and UPS green LEDs are lit.

    The #2 OFFICE NETWORK and #4 CENTRAL LED LIGHTING circuits are the only circuits intended to stay up on UPS while the manual switch to GENERATOR is made. 

    The BACK-UPS PRO 1500 and BR24BPG AUX BATTERY should provide in excess of 40 minutes of setup or hold-over time on the #2 and #4 circuit loads.  

    Switching circuit configurations on the #2 and #4 circuits from UPS to UNINTERRUPTIBLE (or v.v.) causes the circuits to drop momentarily as the UTS reconfigures, but triggers no site wiring fault.

    Switching the UPS off does kill the UTS6H's UPS SOURCE LED, but the #2 and #4 circuits do not drop.  

    Does the UTS6H have a self-test mode?

  • medtech1

    We  just installed a UTS6H, and noted in the "Quick Installation Guide" that circuits 5 and 6 "must be connected to the circuit breaker panel and must receive power for the UTS to function"

    However, regarding the voltage between them,  the wiring schematic (page 13 of the Site Preparation and Installation Guide) that circuits 5 and 6 are connect to the same phase (L2) in the drawing.

    Therefore, would not get 240 volts between these two feeds from the panel.  

    Is this statement an error or is my schematic an error?

    Also, (according to the schematic) out of the six circuits, the UTS6H feeds them from four phase 1 circuits, and two phase 2 circuits.  Not very balanced if each circuit has the same current.

    Can anyone confirm as this has me a bit worried if I'm seeing differences in the wiring, or if I'm not understanding something.

    Thanks!

    ps: I've attached the schematic.

    Attachments
  • ipicKedawinna

    OK, I think there is some confusion here based on our poor documentation specific to the UTS6H. My understanding is the UTS6H (versus UTS6) is a UTS designed for Honda specifically. This UTS has an L5-30P input. 240VAC split phase input only applies to UTS6 or UTS10BI. 

  • medtech1

    Thanks Angela,

    The documentation  (Site Preparation and Installation Guide) covers the UTS6, UTS6H, UTS6BI and UTS10BI.

    Also the "Quick Install Guide" states:

    "Circuits 5 and 6 on UTS6/UTS6H and the dedicated 240V circuits on the UTS6BI/UTS10BI must be connected to the circuit breaker and must receive power for the UTS to function"

    If this statement is true, the UTS6 and UTS6H both show the circuits 5 and 6 to be necessary for proper operation, however, on both these UTS models, these two circuits are fed from two single pole (15 amp) breakers and are on the same phase, and therefore there is not 240 volts between them. 

    From what I can see, the only difference I can see between the UTS6H and the UTS6 as you mention, is the UTS6 has a 120/240v connection to the generator, while the UTS6H uses just a 120V 30Amp connection. The APC UTS circuits (1 to 6) are fed the same on both the UTS6 and the UTS6H.  In order to avoid getting a PHASE FAULT error, circuits 3 and 4 must come from one phase (L1 in the schematic), and circuits 1,2 and 5,6 come from the other phase (L2 in the schematic).

    Please let me know if I'm not see this correctly.. I just want to be clear as I would like to confirm the documentation I have is correct.

    Please advise thanks!


    Michelle

  • ipicKedawinna

    Yeah, I brought that up earlier. When I looked at the user's guide, all of the references were like UTS6 and UTS6H when in reality, they are not necessarily so similar as far as input power goes. This unit works off of 120V for sure and the other models we make are powered off of 240V using circuits 5 or 6 or 9 and 10 respectively for UTS6 or UTS10BI.

    Your UTS6H has an L5-30P to plug it in, correct?

  • medtech1

    Angela.. thanks for your quick response (you're so fast  ;)  ).

    Actually the UTS4H I received did not have the twist lock 120V/30A female plug (L5-30P) on it. It needed a hard wire 30A/120V connection, and had a terminal block inside on the bottom right side for that purpose. This was better for us anyways, as the UTS6H is inside the house away from the generator.

    Sound right?

    Thanks!
    Michelle

  • ipicKedawinna

    You're welcome laughing

    Let me check tomorrow with my colleague that knows more about this than I do. I'll report back so I can make sure that we are all on the same page.

  • ipicKedawinna

    I just confirmed that the UTS6H UL 3rd Edition panel no longer has the L5-30 located on the front display and does in fact have a hard wire connection as you mentioned.

  • medtech1

    Thanks for confirming that Angela.

    Michelle

  • wacodusm

    Is there any other options or upgrades on the 3rd edition?

    Thanks

    Will

  • wpasquil

    Hi,

    No. There are no upgrades to the unit. The outlet was removed and replaced with the hardwire requirement to in an attempt to prevent users for connecting their generator to the unit indoors using a short cable.

  • wacodusm

    Thank you Bill

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