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Home » Spaces » Back-UPS & Surge Protectors » discussion » General » F01 battery overload issue in my APC Back-UPS XS 1500 (model: BX1500G) from today's power outage...

F01 battery overload issue in my APC Back-UPS XS 1500 (model: BX1500G) from today's power outage...

Discussion in Back-UPS & Surge Protectors started by Ant , 9/26/2017 6:33 AM
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  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 9/26/2017 6:33 AM

    Hello.

    After 9:00 AM PDT this morning, the planned almost all day power outage occurred. I was away in the kitchen from my room when the power outage struck. After a minute of walking fast back to my room to check to manually shut down my two old desktop PCs, it was too late. I heard a loud nonstop beep from the old APC Back-UPS XS 1500 (model: BX1500G) UPS (started using on 8/27/2012 and battery's date shows 5/17/2012); that was still running including its loud fan. I also saw the UPS' front small status screen saying F01.

    According to my quick Google searches and manual, F01 means On-Battery Overload. How is that possible if there were no problems with flowing power from my room's wall outlet? It seems to only happen when there is no power from the wall outlet. Is 400 watts (45% load from two desktop PCs + a 23.6" 1080 LED widescreen monitor -- see http://zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/MyComputerStuff.txt for the full details) too much for the old battery? Do I need a new one?

    I tried running PowerChute Personal Edition v3.0.2's tests with it after my power was restored. No problems.

    Thank you in advance. :)

  • cristiancalvet
    Cristian
    =S= Representative
    Cristian 9/26/2017 1:40 PM (in response to Ant)

    hi Ant , your battery has more than 5 years , the recommendation is change them every 3 or 4 years maximum , probably the  F01 error came from bad batteries .

    when you change them don't forget to put in powerchute the new date of batteries , 

    regards,

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 9/26/2017 7:21 PM (in response to Cristian)
    On 9/26/2017 6:40 AM, Cristian said:

    hi Ant , your battery has more than 5 years , the recommendation is change them every 3 or 4 years maximum , probably the  F01 error came from bad batteries .

    If the batteries are bad, then shouldn't had its tests failed from both UPS' automatic internal and Windows' PowerChute's tests?

  • cristiancalvet
    Cristian
    =S= Representative
    Cristian 9/27/2017 12:48 PM (in response to Ant)

    probably they are not totally dead , but when the batteries are old the acid inside them starts to dry causing it to short-circuit in the battery or fail to deliver voltage ramdomly , so maybe the test don't detect it yet , but soon it will do , 

     

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 9/27/2017 7:11 PM (in response to Cristian)

    OK, I did some brief testings this morning with my UPS since I could reproduce the issue easily:

    Total watts used by 2 PCs + 1 monitor = ~425 (UPS failed with F01 overload & battery shutdown)

    Linux/Debian PC + 1 monitor = ~113 watts (UPS stayed up & battery power working)

    Windows PC + 1 monitor = ~324 watts (UPS failed with F01 overload & battery shut down)

    So my Windows desktop PC is sucking up a lot of battery power for UPS to fail. :( So a new battery will fix this problem?

  • cristiancalvet
    Cristian
    =S= Representative
    Cristian 9/27/2017 7:43 PM (in response to Ant)

    in the mostly of cases is the old battery that cant support the load yes,

     

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 9/27/2017 8:58 PM (in response to Cristian)
    On 9/27/2017 12:43 PM, Cristian said:

    in the mostly of cases is the old battery that cant support the load yes,

    Thanks. I'll plan to buy a new APC RBC124 UPS Replacement Battery Cartridge for my APC Back-UPS XS 1500G BX1500G from https://smile.amazon.com/APC-APCRBC124-Replacement-Cartridge-SMC1000-2U/dp/B004F08NSM for $55.45 soon (apc.com web site shows it $70 and out of stock! :(). :)

    Also, I ran more tests from PowerChute after fixing its misdetections of my UPS model as shown in my http://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/81530/how-do-i-reset-apc-powerchute-personal-edition-v3-0-2-after-switching-to-a-different-apc-ups/1 forum thread.  I noticed UPS took longer to do its tests. They passed again with both connected PCs and 1 monitor. FYI:

    Model:                    Back-UPS XS 1500G
    Serial number:                4B1220[deleted the rest]
    Firmware revision:            866.L6.D
    Software version:            PowerChute Personal Edition 3.0.2
    Date of last manual self-test:        9/27/2017
    Result of last manual self-test:    Passed
    RAM:                    5.99 GB
    Free disk space:            1565.70 GB

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 10/8/2017 5:19 AM (in response to Ant)

    OK, I got the battery replaced but how do I know how old these are? I saw no labels or anything on them. :(

    I also just tested its new battery by unplugging its power AC cable from the wall outlet after replacing it almost 12 hours later. No battery overload and shut down like the old battery. Now, I will need to recycle the old battery by dropping off at a local store soon.

  • cristiancalvet
    Cristian
    =S= Representative
    Cristian 10/9/2017 2:07 PM (in response to Ant)

    you can know the exactly date of the batteries normally for serial number , you need to ask the maker, he will tell to you how to read the serial number of them , 

    regards,

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 10/9/2017 8:30 PM (in response to Cristian)
    On 10/9/2017 7:07 AM, Cristian said:

    you can know the exactly date of the batteries normally for serial number , you need to ask the maker, he will tell to you how to read the serial number of them , ...

    Thanks. I got the answer from my new http://forums.apc.com/spaces/4/back-ups-surge-protectors/forums/general/81744/how-do-i-know-how-old-apc-rbc124-battery-is/1 forum thread. :)

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 12/16/2017 5:45 PM (in response to Ant)

    Bad news! I just had a few minutes real power outage about 40 minutes ago, but my UPS failed to keep both my PCs up again (their shared monitor was powered off for the night)!  I only had the new battery for over two months! Why did it degrade so fast? Do I need a new UPS instead? :(

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 12/20/2017 11:11 PM (in response to Ant)

    Here's a battery photo(graph) from October 2017's replacement from https://www.amazon.com/APC-APCRBC124-Replacement-Cartridge-SMC1000-2U/dp/B004F08NSM (Amazon seller). Assuming I am reading its labels correctly, is it 1726 from the bottom white labels which is 26th week of 2017 which is about three months old when it was ordered? If so, then isn't that already old? I retested again, and it still failed even with 300 watts from that full tower Windows PC even without its monitor on. :(

    r
  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 12/27/2017 8:01 PM (in response to Ant)

    So, no suggestions? :(

  • voidstar
    voidstar
    Expert Expert
    voidstar 12/28/2017 6:07 AM (in response to Ant)

    You want a battery that is less than six months old (or has been kept charged), so three months should be fine. At this point I'd call APC, especially if you bought a genuine APC battery. Contact details here:

    http://www.apc.com/us/en/support/contact-us/index.jsp

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 12/28/2017 6:51 PM (in response to voidstar)
    On 12/27/2017 10:07 PM, voidstar said:

    You want a battery that is less than six months old (or has been kept charged), so three months should be fine. At this point I'd call APC, especially if you bought a genuine APC battery. Contact details here:

    http://www.apc.com/us/en/support/contact-us/index.jsp

    Yea, I sent an e-mail to APC last week and still waiting. I think they are slow with the holidays going on. :(

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 12/30/2017 8:22 PM (in response to Ant)

    A friend told me that over 50% load is considered an overload. Is that true? My UPS' power load is under 50% though. :/

  • voidstar
    voidstar
    Expert Expert
    voidstar 12/30/2017 8:58 PM (in response to Ant)

    Over 100% is overload. Max power consumption can usually be found written on the back of equipment (in amps) near its power supply. Actual consumption depends on usage -- ie, gaming vs word processing.

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 12/31/2017 5:33 PM (in response to voidstar)
    On 12/30/2017 12:58 PM, voidstar said:

    Over 100% is overload. Max power consumption can usually be found written on the back of equipment (in amps) near its power supply. Actual consumption depends on usage -- ie, gaming vs word processing.

    So my UPS shouldn't have any problems with 50% power load as shown on its screen. I tested when idling. Gaming would go up to 500 watts.

  • voidstar
    voidstar
    Expert Expert
    voidstar 1/2/2018 6:23 AM (in response to Ant)

    I'd say if the rating on the power supply is <865W, you should be fine. At the moment of power failure, some power supplies can start drawing their max rated load in an attempt to keep up their bus capacitors filled as the voltage drops. Another factor is age of the power supply -- those power supply capacitors can deteriorate and not provide enough hold-up before the UPS kicks in.

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 1/2/2018 10:00 AM (in response to voidstar)
    On 1/1/2018 10:23 PM, voidstar said:

    I'd say if the rating on the power supply is <865W, you should be fine. At the moment of power failure, some power supplies can start drawing their max rated load in an attempt to keep up their bus capacitors filled as the voltage drops. Another factor is age of the power supply -- those power supply capacitors can deteriorate and not provide enough hold-up before the UPS kicks in.

    Is replacing the power supply easy inside an UPS like PCs? If so, then where can those be ordered? Still strange how the replaced battery worked once when I did a manual test a day later.

    Maybe this will give more clues if useful at all:

    $ /sbin/apcaccess
    APC      : 001,036,0866
    DATE     : 2018-01-02 02:07:43 -0800
    HOSTNAME : MyLinuxBox
    VERSION  : 3.14.12 (29 March 2014) debian
    UPSNAME  : MyLinuxBox
    CABLE    : USB Cable
    DRIVER   : USB UPS Driver
    UPSMODE  : Stand Alone
    STARTTIME: 2017-12-20 14:42:28 -0800
    MODEL    : Back-UPS XS 1500G
    STATUS   : ONLINE
    LINEV    : 120.0 Volts
    LOADPCT  : 42.0 Percent
    BCHARGE  : 100.0 Percent
    TIMELEFT : 14.7 Minutes
    MBATTCHG : 5 Percent
    MINTIMEL : 3 Minutes
    MAXTIME  : 0 Seconds
    SENSE    : Medium
    LOTRANS  : 88.0 Volts
    HITRANS  : 139.0 Volts
    ALARMDEL : 30 Seconds
    BATTV    : 27.0 Volts
    LASTXFER : No transfers since turnon
    NUMXFERS : 0
    TONBATT  : 0 Seconds
    CUMONBATT: 0 Seconds
    XOFFBATT : N/A
    SELFTEST : NO
    STATFLAG : 0x05000008
    SERIALNO : 4B1220P[deleted]
    BATTDATE : 2017-10-07
    NOMINV   : 120 Volts
    NOMBATTV : 24.0 Volts
    NOMPOWER : 865 Watts
    FIRMWARE : 866.L6 .D USB FW:L6
    END APC  : 2018-01-02 02:08:02 -0800

    This is with two PCs + one monitor.

  • voidstar
    voidstar
    Expert Expert
    voidstar 1/2/2018 7:24 PM (in response to Ant)
    On 1/2/2018 5:00 AM, Ant said:

    Is replacing the power supply easy inside an UPS like PCs?

    I was referring to the PC's power supply.

    Agreed -- it's interesting that the replacement battery worked when doing a manual test, and two months later you got the F01 error. It might be worth trying a manual test again to see if there's a difference between manually testing and a power failure.

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 1/3/2018 9:22 AM (in response to voidstar)
    On 1/2/2018 11:24 AM, voidstar said:
    On 1/2/2018 5:00 AM, Ant said:

    Is replacing the power supply easy inside an UPS like PCs?

    I was referring to the PC's power supply.

    Agreed -- it's interesting that the replacement battery worked when doing a manual test, and two months later you got the F01 error. It might be worth trying a manual test again to see if there's a difference between manually testing and a power failure.

    Oh, my Windows PC's PSU? I got Antec HCG-620M (620 watts) power supply unit (PSU) in the summer of 2014. It should be OK? As for UPS' replaced battery, I did retest with a manual fake power outage (unplugged UPS' power cable from the room's wall power outlet) after the failure from a short real power outage. :(

  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 1/4/2018 8:03 PM (in response to Ant)

    I finally got a a bad news e-mail answer:

    ... We have had a notification saying that the email is not delivered. I am sorry about the inconvenience. 
    
    As you told, the F01 error indicates 'On battery overload'. We suggest you to reduce the load. If you want this as your load for backup, you may have to replace the unit. Replacing the battery will not resolve the issue.
    
    You can opt for our trade ups program to purchase the new unit...
  • ant
    Ant
    Apprentice Apprentice
    Ant 1/8/2018 3:25 AM (in response to Ant)

    I communicated more with APC's e-mail support. Vikas SP said:

    "... I suggest you to reboot the unit once. Please follow the steps to do the same:
    1. Disconnect any attached load from the unit and unplug the UPS from the wall socket.
    2. Disconnect the UPS' internal battery.
    3. Push and hold the "On" button on the UPS for 5 seconds
    4. Reconnect internal battery.
    5. Plug UPS in to a known good power source.
    6. Turn UPS on.

    If the issue is there, this will be internal fault and the new unit (BR1500G) will be able to handle the load without issues..."

    I tried his suggestion earlier due to a quiet Sunday evening PST. Assuming I did it right from his instructions, I unplugged everything from the UPS including its battery (didn't pull it out all the way, so I could reinsert it easily since it was heavy) and from the house room's wall outlet. As I was holding down its power button for over five seconds to reboot my UPS, I noticed it turned on and beeped right away for about a second and then turned off. It was like it was trying to turn on with its very little power even though the battery was partially pulled out. I assume that this is the correct behavior. I double checked to see if UPS would turn on, and it didn't. If I did the instructions correctly, then this UPS still failed to stay up with over 300 watts load due to F01 overload failure. I also tried other plugs in the same wall socket and on the UPS. It made no differences. :( I also retested >110 watts load, and it held up fine with almost 30 minutes left to hold.

    Is it possible to fix this old UPS? Is it caused by a cap or something? I still find it strange that Amazon's UPS battery replacement was working fine once when I manually tested it a day later. :(

    Thank you in advance. :)

  • voidstar
    voidstar
    Expert Expert
    voidstar 1/8/2018 9:53 PM (in response to Ant)

    Sounds like you've done what you can.

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